tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post6815333530443573152..comments2013-08-22T01:30:22.634-07:00Comments on the same river: Deep Rootszhaohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14353325572641788305noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-26448120370782305272008-11-05T05:23:00.000-08:002008-11-05T05:23:00.000-08:00plato, yes. and my favorite one, from whom the na...plato, yes. and my favorite one, from whom the name of this and the music blog comes from, derived a lot of his ideas from India...zhaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14353325572641788305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-60020732842639825802008-11-05T05:21:00.000-08:002008-11-05T05:21:00.000-08:00thanks nightlight, for your input. good to read t...thanks nightlight, for your input. good to read thoughts coming from Greece on this subject :)zhaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14353325572641788305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-29970925694252642262008-10-20T09:33:00.000-07:002008-10-20T09:33:00.000-07:00And anyway, even Plato, the beloved of the Christi...And anyway, even Plato, the beloved of the Christians in Europe was supposed to have acquired "vast" knowledge in Egypt...Nightlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12238325871272557495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-79366903047058328862008-10-20T09:22:00.000-07:002008-10-20T09:22:00.000-07:00No, by 'Aryan' I was referring to the 20th century...No, by 'Aryan' I was referring to the 20th century imposed 'Warrior of Thule' model... Though all such models are irrelevant when handled by people who don't know much about them, right?<BR/><BR/>What I said is that yes, Greeks can be THAT stupid to believe that before them there were no advanced civs worth talking about, except the Cretans who are consider Greeks anyway, and the Egyptians and the Phoenicians, half-heartedly. All of this comes from cleverly cultivated nationalist propaganda, rather needed in the 19th century to help the just liberated "nation" to grow again. Though it now sounds as absurd as Nazi groups in Moscow, it's as real as they are (and equally fast in spreading and multiplying).<BR/>Fortunately, some people have different opinions.<BR/><BR/>What I wanted to imply was that this east-west controversy on the origin of civilization is... well, too western to begin with. In Greece we know that we had influences from "the East", because we can see them in statues, in talk, on our faces, in everyday life. Hell, for most Europeans we also are "of the East". This Rennaissance obsession with classical Greece created a idealist's vision of a nation we are not actually sure if it existed as such, much less if it produced culture of the same ... quality. Sparta's military model has nothing to do with commerce based city states of the Aegean Sea. The cultural spreading, "philosophical", colonies sucking Athenian model had no real influence on the nomadic pot-smoking tribes of Thrace who worshiped dark Gods from the depths of Asia.<BR/>Naming everything "Greek" and putting it in the same bag is an easy way to create "history" and redefine your culture (when against an enemy, most of the times) and that's what Europeans did back then and still do now, but it doesn't have much to do with what really happened, right?Nightlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12238325871272557495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-84728353455651648292008-10-06T11:34:00.000-07:002008-10-06T11:34:00.000-07:00wait. after reading again i'm not sure what exact...wait. after reading again i'm not sure what exactly you are saying... that most greeks reject the "Aryan model"? but what do they believe exactly? that Greek civilization was "original"? or largely came from other sources?zhaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14353325572641788305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-65477723669407564852008-10-06T06:32:00.000-07:002008-10-06T06:32:00.000-07:00i assume by "Aryan" you mean the original Aryan, o...i assume by "Aryan" you mean the original Aryan, or Iranian/Persian. <BR/><BR/>thanks for the note. makes sense... the lies run deep.zhaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14353325572641788305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28176889.post-60903411404808073962008-09-16T08:02:00.000-07:002008-09-16T08:02:00.000-07:00Hi there.Though I haven't read the book and I don'...Hi there.<BR/>Though I haven't read the book and I don't have much knowledge on the subject, I have to say (just by being from and living in Greece) that NO ONE here thinks that the ancient Greek civilization was influenced by 'Aryan', 'indo- european', etc. people. The most common expression for this (and also of greeks' arrogance and retro-nationalism) is that "When we were building the Parthenon, they were gathering oaks from the trees"...<BR/>Our main debts are to Cretans, also Greeks but going far back in time and having commerce with and influences by and over all east Mediterranean, Egyptians of course, as well as the civs of Mesopotamia.Nightlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12238325871272557495noreply@blogger.com